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this is the battle of budget boost yourwatching engine masters presented by amsoil and this time we're going to havea look at the power and the aggravation involved with installing the mostaffordable implements of supercharging that you can buy in a kit that is apaxton centrifugal supercharger that is a weiand roots blower we're goingto find out which one of these is better for you look it's an actual ford on enginemasters we actually love this little motor and you might remember it ifyou're a fan of our roadkill show we put this engine in the nineteen sixty-eightford ranchero and drove it all the way
to alaska from california and it gotshipped back and on the ship out there on the ocean this thing got so cruddy and horriblebut steve dulcich grabbed it from us he put new rings and bearings in it anddressed it all up look at all swanky and ready for its star appearance on enginemasters this the naturally aspirated trim makes 450 horsepower and 440pound-feet of torque this is a small block ford configurationthe same as the 302 but 363 cubic inches because it has a bigger stroke threepoint four inches and aftermarket block with a four and eight inch bore so thatadds up to a 363 the whole bottom end is
from dart machinery they sell the wholeshort block under their hp line it's all forge stuff pretty good deal it also has dart heads on it they have a195cc intake runner this thing has 9.21 compression thecamshaft is a comp cams nitrous grind it's the nx 282 hr for hydraulic roller- 14 meaning it's on a hundred and fourteendegrees lobe separation angle which in theory is going to be good for the boostthat we're going to throw at it this carburetor is a holly 850 ultra xp we used it naturally aspirated we'realso going to put it on top of the weiand
route supercharger we're going to try and use it with theblow through set up on the paxton's and typical blower right now let's hang thisthing on the dyno and find out what it does under pressure we're going to lay the boost to it thefirst blower that we're going to install is the weiand 174 mini supercharger thatacts like a belt-driven intake manifold it is the roots blower portion of thecomparable this is the first ford we've done on engine masters i know what do you think and it was my build too i know but it was your engine
so if it goes wrong all the ford guys will blame you this is what's called a rootssupercharger the design where you have two rotors in here that spend togetherit's actually a positive displacement compressor this is a hundred and seventyfour cubic inches every time it rotates all the way around it shows that muchair into the engine you can see how they roll around hereand are sealed with teflon the whole reason any supercharger including aturbo makes more power with boost is because you're cramming more air intothe engine when you have more air you can burn more fuel and with more fuel
you get more power pluck the carburetor onlet's check it out prop the carburetor on in theright direction i don't have people are alwaysasking us why aren't we using efi you know a lot of it is is we've got tocrank these videos out really quickly and this way we don't have to hook up abunch of sensors or do any wiring or create a tune up for anything this is just simpler for initial fire upand running and a wide open throttle tends to make kind of the samehorsepower either way and also for this particular test
we're talking entry-level superchargesand entry-level guys often don't have efi and this is rudimentarytechnology lets face it as you can see we don't have an ordinaryengineer we have pretty much a racing engine withsuper charger so that's going to put extra demands on the oil we talk to theexperts at amsoil and they recommended their 1550 which seems like a very heavygrade of motor oil but with the supercharger puts a lot ofload on the internal components so you want that extra cushion and theextra protection it also has a reflection of the zinc in the additivepackage and phosphorus and other
ingredients that really protect theengine and let's see if i can for this as good as freiburger whoa them out withbefore i think a mess if you're seeing some smoke out there inthe room that is just a little oil leak that we've got coming out of theflywheel bolts in the back so don't worry about it ok oh my 5.6 5.9 pounds of boost thatpeak power yeah that's about it five and a halfpounds of boost neighborhood of let's see what kind of power we made with theweiand blower at five and a half pounds of boost we made 473 pound-feet of torqueand 522 horsepower
here's the problem though 520 horsepoweris not a number you want to throw out when you have a blown small block butit's not a whole blower it's only a half a blower well or you know the solution is moreboost right well i did get a smaller pulley for itwe should probably do that and see what it does i'm ready to go what we're doing now is changing thedrive ratio of the supercharger to spin it faster to make more boost
what you want to do is measure thediameter of your driven pulley and the diameter of your drive pulley and youdivide the driven pulley by the drive pulley to get your overall drive ratioright now we're spinning the blower forty percent faster than the enginespeed and when we put a smaller pulley on top we're going to be driving it sixty-fourpercent faster than the engine speed so do a little math and what's thisthing turning like 10,000 rpm or more this is the one part of the whole set upthat dulcich doesn't like it doesn't match the shiny chrome it just doesn'tlook good against the aluminum
low sheen of the rest of blower was ityou that said function before form well i don't know what that looks likeit belongs on a shopping cart or something yeah we're going to see their big boostor belt slip or big boost in less power i'm hoping for a big boost not belt slipright okay there went the belt get out the rubbercement let's fix that but not the wd-40 like last time with hemi this ends upbeing a problem on all of these super chargers that have a serpentine beltdrive with a lot of boost yeah they're fine and look really loseyeah but not now
this is the belt tensioner spring-loadedbut it's almost like an completely collapse it and that's probably why thebelt is getting thrown so we can pull it out a little bit and hose clamp it hey steve o where are the hose clamps i bet we're going to end up doing the same thing with the paxtonoh yeah run it this is our third differentattempt at running this thing with a small blower pulley and big boost andthe belt keeps falling off this is gonna be a freiburger i was going to ask you the same thing ithink it is either we're going to have more good violence or we're gonna makebig power
stayed on we made 12 pounds of boost rightup at the very very top more like 10 in here but 568 pound-feet of torque and apretty flat curve and up here 602 horsepower all the way of sixty sixhundred rpm if you can change an intake manifold in a fan belt you can install yeah and we didn't touch the carburetorfrom the naturally aspirated setup that was the cool thing the carburetor was like 12 8 and anytimeyou know it's probably could've been a touch richer with the higher boost levelbut you know we got away with it but on the five pound boost level that time rightout of the box you know after the n h was fine
lowered swap lower swap all right nowthis will only take another six hours well that was pretty good we were able to take the carburetordirectly off of are naturally aspirated combination plop it right on top of this blower andit just plain worked now i really wanted to do that to provea point but holley wanted to make sure that you understand that they sell asupercharger carburetor for this which i will say is really well calibrated outof the box but here's the most important thing about it
the supercharger carburetor has a boostreferenced power valve the power valve inside the carburetor adds fuelenrichment under periods of high load and it does that by looking at lowvacuum conditions the problem is if i put this carburetoron top of that manifold i could be a part throttle situation where i'm seeingvacuum here and maybe half a pound of boost here maybe even a pound of boostand because there is vacuumed up here the power valve is not opening and so you boost reference the powervalve from the side of the carburetor here
down underneath the manifold and it justmake sure that you're perfectly safe on the street and that's kind of what youneed to know about running this little roots blower it was simple now we're going to move on to the paxtonsupercharger this is paxton's 1200 series sl thatmeans itself lubricated you don't have to plumb oil into thesupercharger and then back to your oil pan and it will lubricate itself which makesit pretty neat what's a little more complicated aboutthis is that we're going to be blowing
boost through the carburetor sometimes that can be tricky with thesesetups other times that bolts right up and works because the boost is goingthrough the carburetor and also through the vent tubes for the float bowls whichare holding the fuel and fuel is coming in from the fuel pump you have to have what's called a boostreference fuel system because imagine seven psi i fuel going into the bowl and sevenpsi of boost going into the vent tube seven psi working get seven psi is 0 psiyou would get no fuel flow so you need a regulator that canreference boost from the hat and step up
the fuel flow in direct proportion tothe boost in english you want seven psi more fuel pressure than boost at all times right exactly and if you reference theboost you just add 7 to it and you will always have plenty of fuel what would i do without you i think iget out my calculator really you can be replaced by an iphone oh man this isgoing to be our first test with the paxton supercharger we tried to makeit run with that out of the box holley ultra xp carburetor and it justbasically wouldn't run we're not exactly sure why it was either too rich or toolean it was just misfiring was
struggling it's like hit or miss on whether thecarburetor is going to work right out of the box with one of these deals or notit can be made to work i am confident but we happen to have a carburetor inthe cabinet that we already know kind of works well with these blow through stuffand you're so we opted to take the easy road and put the other carburetor on so do youthink that's gonna work steve-o yeah i'm very confident this carburetoris a holley 850 double pumper but it's been worked over by a company called csuit has an annular boosters and a bunch
of other trickery to make it workspecifically with a blow through application like this is it going to saveus yeah yeah we're good right now ok belt slip yeah you could really see itwagging now the long side every time yeah instead of having a spring-loadedtensioner like the other blower set up did this thing just has an idler that ridesright against the belt we gotta tighten it so that it's about ad string sound right there and interestingly this is the out-of-the-boxpulley ratio the other blower we only ran into trouble once we started to hop the thing up with a pulley that was
really way too small for too much boostthis thing straight from the factory 675 here's what just happened final run wedidn't have any belt slip and that junk made 573 pound-feet of torque which issort of just stuff because it made 675 horsepower what you're looking at here is the weiandroots supercharger in red and then blue and the paxton centripetal in black andreally it's kind of a classic trade off do you want low end power with yourroots or do you want high-end horsepower with your central focal the simple asthat
now let's have a look at the torquecurves with the same two blowers once again in red and blue you've got theroots supercharger in black you've got the centripetal look at that why would you ever give up this muchpower down here if you're talking just the streetcar application not a drag car well i mean i probably would i i'mmore of a top ten high rpm guy okay well then you're gonna have todrive your car above 5000rpm wide open all the time now take advantage of valuecenter on the four-cylinder back and forth to work i don't think i needanything that your chair
so so let me run through my conclusions andyou can tell me if you agree or not i'll get to tell you why your chump that'sright so let's start with the weiand roots supercharger i'm gonna say that was way easier toinstall this ok i can't go way it was easier to install the centrifugal i'llgive you that it was way easier on the tune up in carburation issue way way way and i think that's going tobe true anytime you have got to blow through versus a roots set up
i am waffling on what actually looksbetter because i'm getting accustomed to this meaning horsepower and being coolright how about you i don't know that big macho blower ontop of the engine where it's intended to be with the carburetor on top of thatright wins me over every time i don't know if i can go macho with that littlebaby blower though that's kind of that's in my hangup okay so we'll callthat a draw how about horsepower well i mean thatmade way more horsepower self-evident but the roots blower made so much moretorque down low i think it would be more fun to drivejust day to day on the street
i don't know i mean if i had my choice iwould go for the horsepower you would yeah well i know it's hard to turn downat the magazine editor but no i mean even from my personal cars matter offact this will probably end up in my new cougar you're going to put this in myold cougar well yeah i was your old cougar but it'smine now oh man yeah because i want the top in charge of almost 700 horsepoweris that thing's running up to the red line i really like that both of these setupsare basically the same money to buy the kit but here's another i'll makeagainst the centrifugal you've got also
buy a complete trick carburetor probably yeah and you have tobuy a boost reference fuel system which is therefore going to require you tohave an electric fuel pump and probably a return line and all that whereas the roots set up i'm going toargue you could run that off of mechanical fuel pump no question this is a lot more work yeahyou know i'll give you that it may not even be as practical of a choice but ijust like that top and power and what's the one complete fail with both thesesystems the belt
exactly yeah get away from thatmanufacturers were tired of seeing the serpentine belt slip so i think that's a pretty good wrap we'vegiven you a lot to think about between these two superchargers next time even more interesting engine stuff onengine masters presented by amsoil hey guess what if you're on motor trend ondemand . com you get access to engine masters 30 days before anybody else andthere's an exclusive show on there with dulcich and myself it's called roadkillgarage now here's a sneak peek at the nextepisode of engine masters that's live
right now on motor trend on demand this time on engine masters presented byamsoil we're going to find out what happens when we try and cram 620horsepower through a two-and-a-half-inch muffler or a 3-inch muffler go check outthis episode of engine masters now at motor trend on demand the paxton centrifugal whatwas it called haha said it now this takes r134a ohreally that's not going to r12 well no no it's a big air condition compressorwill keep it nice and cool in the car right
yeah milkshake break it should work now how's your milkshake i didn't get on steve drinking steve's milkshake but it's the wrong steve you want to sip no
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